If information wants to be free, and if buying not equaling owning means that piracy isn’t theft, then art doesn’t belong to artists anyway. Additionally, it’s facile to be too black-and-white about crime; criminals are still humans and being shit in one aspect of their lives doesn’t necessitate that we act as if they were shit in EVERY aspect of their lives. Even criminals still bleed when pricked and laugh when tickled, etc. If we reject the possibility of redemption/rehabilitation, then we might as well execute all criminals. Now, that’s not to say that we should simply forgive every criminal. But rehabilitation only works when it focuses on reminding the criminal of how they can still be useful to society.
I read a very interesting book on this topic, Monsters: A Fan’s Dilemma by Claire Dederer. It doesn’t really give a general answer (arguably impossible anyway), but it was a fascinating exploration of the dilemma.
Personally, I veered all the opposite way - now I avoid entertainment in general out of ethical principle, save for very counted exceptions, because 1. people are generally easy to corrupt, so even someone generally regarded as clean can get cancelled at any point in the future, and 2. the entertainment industry has made it their modus operandi to never separate the art from the artist, therefore making the industry in general more and more morally corrupt. And since checking every single individual credit on every single individual work of entertainment in order to avoid supporting immoral people is prohibitively time-consuming, it has become stochastically immoral to have fun. Most people refuse to accept it though, and that’s precisely on what the industry counts to keep things under wraps for as long as possible.
It’s made a lot easier when the shitty artist is dead. It’s appropriate to talk about H. P. Lovecraft’s racism and xenophobia, hell it even informs understanding of his work a bit better, but buying his work doesn’t fund ongoing bad acts because he’s been dead for almost a century. If you’re going to be a terrible person, the least you can do is also be dead.
I separate Gene Roddenberry’s shitty meddling and rapey behaviour from the work that Gene Coone and D.C. Fontana put into making Star Trek a work of art.
Cool. I guess we should all give up everyone. We’re all just shitty and you better hope you’re not on the wrong end of someone shitty because we’re shitty too and will continue to enable their behavior. How about you grow up? Trying to do better is a human trait, fuck you for giving everyone a pass on being shitty and not be accountable to each other.
I think about that when they don’t love anymore and can’t in any way profit from me consuming their work. Otherwise I just don’t. There is enough to watch out there.
I don’t know if you should try to separate art from artists when the art was a group effort and there were undoubtedly elements of the group that enabled his crimes so they could keep making the art.
I am emotionally incapable of enjoying that show anymore.
Emily Armstrong stepped in as the rock vocalist for Linkin Park when they put out a new album in 2024. She was a friend of Masterson and attended his trial in support.
I think it’s worth noting that she’s gone on record as saying she regrets that support and broke ties from him after that. She was also raised in a Scientologist household, so she was likely pressured to show outward support for him.
His presence really ruins That 70’s Show rewatches.
The age old question, can you separate the art from the artist? Very philosophical and never an easy one.
If information wants to be free, and if buying not equaling owning means that piracy isn’t theft, then art doesn’t belong to artists anyway. Additionally, it’s facile to be too black-and-white about crime; criminals are still humans and being shit in one aspect of their lives doesn’t necessitate that we act as if they were shit in EVERY aspect of their lives. Even criminals still bleed when pricked and laugh when tickled, etc. If we reject the possibility of redemption/rehabilitation, then we might as well execute all criminals. Now, that’s not to say that we should simply forgive every criminal. But rehabilitation only works when it focuses on reminding the criminal of how they can still be useful to society.
I read a very interesting book on this topic, Monsters: A Fan’s Dilemma by Claire Dederer. It doesn’t really give a general answer (arguably impossible anyway), but it was a fascinating exploration of the dilemma.
Personally, I veered all the opposite way - now I avoid entertainment in general out of ethical principle, save for very counted exceptions, because 1. people are generally easy to corrupt, so even someone generally regarded as clean can get cancelled at any point in the future, and 2. the entertainment industry has made it their modus operandi to never separate the art from the artist, therefore making the industry in general more and more morally corrupt. And since checking every single individual credit on every single individual work of entertainment in order to avoid supporting immoral people is prohibitively time-consuming, it has become stochastically immoral to have fun. Most people refuse to accept it though, and that’s precisely on what the industry counts to keep things under wraps for as long as possible.
I’m probably not going to read this. Just tell me, oh wise one, should I watch house of cards again?
Watch the old BBC version if you haven’t seen it.
…yes, but stop at the end of Season 2 (when he bangs his knuckles on the desk)
It’s made a lot easier when the shitty artist is dead. It’s appropriate to talk about H. P. Lovecraft’s racism and xenophobia, hell it even informs understanding of his work a bit better, but buying his work doesn’t fund ongoing bad acts because he’s been dead for almost a century. If you’re going to be a terrible person, the least you can do is also be dead.
Only if the artist is no longer making money off of the art
Sure.
I separate Gene Roddenberry’s shitty meddling and rapey behaviour from the work that Gene Coone and D.C. Fontana put into making Star Trek a work of art.
I’m with you. The people who struggle with it really make no sense to me.
Kanye is a right fucktard but he has written some goddamn bangers.
Polanski and Allen are amazing directors that are disgusting people.
Arnold cheated on his wife but he made so many awesome movies as an action star.
List goes on and on back to th beginning of time.
People are people. We are all flawed. Yes even you reading this now whoever you are. Get over yourself.
Cool. I guess we should all give up everyone. We’re all just shitty and you better hope you’re not on the wrong end of someone shitty because we’re shitty too and will continue to enable their behavior. How about you grow up? Trying to do better is a human trait, fuck you for giving everyone a pass on being shitty and not be accountable to each other.
At what point did I say give up and don’t try to be a better person?
Your absolutism is exactly what wrong with the world right now.
You can’t hold hands when you make fists.
I think about that when they don’t love anymore and can’t in any way profit from me consuming their work. Otherwise I just don’t. There is enough to watch out there.
I don’t know if you should try to separate art from artists when the art was a group effort and there were undoubtedly elements of the group that enabled his crimes so they could keep making the art.
I am emotionally incapable of enjoying that show anymore.
If it makes you feel any better, they’re all major assholes. I think Topher Grace is the only one with no shit stuck to him, but I can be mistaken.
Even Prepon? I don’t follow the media that much…
She’s a die hard scientologist. Probably the worse after Masterson.
She left Scientology recently-ish.
Oh, crap 🤦♂️😱
I didn’t like his character the first time I watched it.
I know what you mean
Trumps presence and continuing head/kneck connection really makes me avoid anything America produces
I can’t even watch Ali G’s interview with trump any more. And that shit was funny.
My kneck, my bach
He’s the reason I can’t listen to Linkin Park anymore.
Ok I’m a bit out of the loop on this one, what is the connection with Linkin Park?
Emily Armstrong stepped in as the rock vocalist for Linkin Park when they put out a new album in 2024. She was a friend of Masterson and attended his trial in support.
I think it’s worth noting that she’s gone on record as saying she regrets that support and broke ties from him after that. She was also raised in a Scientologist household, so she was likely pressured to show outward support for him.
Appreciate the answer, thanks! And yeah that’s super fucked up. I hope she got away from scientology as well.
Is it maybe Linkin Park sucks?
/s calm down, put your keys at ease lol