Never buy Hisense, got it.
I’d like to let people know that Sceptre still makes dumb tvs and they’re pretty good.
I have never connected a TV to the Internet. I do have a smart TV but I just use it for my computer.
i wish people were less tolerating about this shit. most likely users of those tvs will grumble a little at first and then just accept and eventually disparage anyone for speaking against it.
people should get way more angry about this publicly.
just think about how things used to be 50 or 100 years ago. Having a huge scandal could actually end someones career or put down a company. Now there is nothing shitty people and companies can’t do because everyone is so apathetic they wouldnt care if they themselves are the victim.
How hard is it for companies to just make a good screen screen with the necessary ports any nothing else.
We are all losing our minds.
It’s textbook rent-seeking behavior. They discount the TV $201 to undercut someone else, and make up the difference selling the ads over the life of the TV.
This is how SO many things work, it’s only surprising that it’s taken this long. If you watch YT on this fancy TV, you’re getting the same thing.
Relatedly, Hisense also forces updates and disables use of the TV if you do not accept the update (via a full screen non-cancelable prompt).
I learned this the hard way after Hisense broke my TV via an update that I didn’t want and then refused to fix it even after 6 months of escalations and emails.
They’re not alone, either. I had to downgrade my Visio just to use the features that it shipped with. I’m sure this is illegal, but no one cares unless you’re rich.
I outright told them it’s illegal, since they are unilaterally altering the terms of any T&C agreements when we started using the TV and materially interfering with our ownership and use of the TV we purchased. They didn’t care. I then sent it to our state attorney general and nothing happened.
You can likely sue them in small claims court. Many states let you file for a couple hundred dollars and will give you 3x damages if you win.
The most likely outcome is they settle when the court date approaches or dont show and you win hy default.
There was a guy in Texas who thought a big tobacco company would settle out without showing, but instead he got counter sued to the tune of millions. That man? Rusty Shackleford.
There’s a good documentary about it.
I can neither confirm nor deny that @RustyShackleford@piefed.social is man of taste.
Time is a flat circle.
I can neither confirm nor deny baked goods preferences without counsel present.
And if time really is a flat circle, then one of us should remember this conversation already.
I don’t.
Which means you’re early… or I’m late. 🤔
I know they’re different manufacturers, but TCL tried this shit and I just factory reset and never setup the Internet on it. I use an android TV box for the smarts.
Unfortunately the firmware was the issue, not just OS software. So factory-resetting didn’t help us. But yeah, that definitely radicalized me to the “never connect it to the internet” camp for future TVs.
Buying the TV and then not connecting it still rewards the bad behavior.
We have to boycott these fucks and lobby to get the behavior outlawed.
You’re implying there is an option other than not owning a TV. Please send us specifics so we can join you.
You used to be able to still buy ‘dumb’ TVs from Sceptre up until a year or so ago, but even they’ve stopped selling them now. (I’m kicking myself for not buying one when I had the chance…)
But the important part of my comment was this:
and lobby to get the behavior outlawed.
I mean, that’s great in theory. But the amount of manufacturers of non-smart TVs is tiny, and if you are interested in the best panels and display technology, refresh rates for gaming, etc (even removing affordability), it’s very very hard to just boycott if you want to have a modern TV at all.
and lobby to get the behavior outlawed.
The best panels for gaming are on computer monitors, not tvs.
Getting the ad-subsidized tech without the ads sounds like a win to me
[Citation needed]
There is zero fucking evidence whatsoever that the alleged “savings” from the ad “subsidy” are getting passed to the consumer.
Automatic litterboxes, fancy toothbrushes, vidya consoles, air purifiers are all examples of physical items often sold at a loss in anticipation of a future revenue stream off the top of my head. Ad specific, lower end smartphones are cheap to free because the money comes from selling your data (by way of tracking apps the manufacturer is paid to include). That their motives aren’t altruistic kinda goes without saying. I would be very surprised if televisions were excluded from this process, and need a new explanation for walmart’s sub-$50 ad-choked tv selection
I wasn’t asking for a citation that their methods aren’t altruistic; I was asking for a citation that they aren’t enshittifying the product with ads or subscriptions or whatever and then gouging you for full price anyway.
You are paying for features you don’t use (such as Internet access). That’s not a win.
They’re saying the company may be selling the device for less than the cost to produce it expecting the low price to draw in consumers while their predatory ads rake in much more money, so buying it and never connecting it means they took a loss. I’m skeptical that companies would do that these days. More likely they overcharge for the physical hardware AND have predatory ad software, you know to maximize shareholder value.
Even if that were true, you’re still paying more than you would be for a “dumb” TV that doesn’t have those features. So everybody loses but the company selling the hardware still sees a sale. They lose a lot more if they pay the cost to produce and then never sell the device.
I got a TCL last year and it wouldn’t let me use the TV until I set up the internet. After 4 factory resets I figured out how to put it in store demo mode, and plugged in a separate streaming device that connects to the internet. Now I realize I could have connected the TV to the internet and then blocked it at the network level.
If you are using a network level block, make sure it’s a black hole and not just a DNS filter. I tried a DNS filter with a Roku and found that they bypass it with hardcoded values, even when the DNS server was statically assigned and DHCP assigned.
Wait till they start paying netflix to relay data for them :)
What you mean by black hole and filter? I blocked a bunch of tcl domains on my pihole and made my router drop everything in port 53 coming from every other device that wasn’t pihole. It seems to have worked for now… Is that a good solution?
No, it’s not robust. It may work for your TV, but it can be worked around.
DNS is like a phone directory for Internet: it translates domain name to IP addresses. If you block the DNS (what pihole does), it blocks the directory access. But if the IP address of the servers are hard-coded in the firmware, the TV does not need a DNS, it can reach the server directly.
To trick the TV, you need to restrict the IPs it can reach. It might be delicate: it probably tries to ping some comme IPs to check it’s connected, then call the brand’s server for ads/updates/etc.
Pi-hole blocks the name resolution. TV wants to go to Hisense.com, asks your Pi-hole where that site is. Your Pi-hole sees that Hisense is on a block list, so it says back to your TV “sorry, no idea how to get to that site, it must be offline.”
If the manufacturer wants to get around this, they program a public DNS in, like 8.8.8.8, or they hardcode the static IP for their website into the TV. Now when it wants to go to Hisense, it never has to ask your Pi-Hole where that site is, and it doesn’t get blocked. Heck, it probably won’t even show up on your Pi-hole’s logs.
If you black hole the site, then any traffic going out there gets dropped, and the hard-coded addresses on the TV don’t matter for shit.
I don’t think my tcl TV has it hardcoded because my pihole is always blocking tcl domains
![(https://media.piefed.social/posts/tU/o1/tUo1JxYy1qjG7g4.jpg)]
Your Pi-hole can only block the things that query DNS. Try this, ping a website you don’t normally go to, and you should see that show up in Pihole log. Next, ping an IP, I usually pick on 8.8.8.8, and see if that shows up in your Pi-hole’s logs. I’m fairly confident it won’t.
Where can I find out more about black holing a site?
Best I can do is Google it and read it to you. I’m a little knowledgeable about how a pihole works since I have my Net+, and I’ve set up a few Pi-hole’s (or the same one a few times tbh), but I’m definitely not a networking expert.
Cool! Thanks!
Yep, same issue with Firestick here.
Their Google TV models have a basic mode which lets you use it without internet with no bypassing.
As do the Roku TCL models. I currently have mine disconnected and plan to keep it that way.
Unfortunately manufacturers are starting to get wise to this as well. I recently bought a new Vizio smart TV with no intentions of connecting it to the internet and during the initial setup it kept very persistently insisting that it needed to be connected and after setup it constantly bitches at me that it’s not connected.
I did the same thing, their bullshit ad infested updates were the final straw,
Hisense are also selling their TVs with different specs on different markets which is really annoying. In the United States you get Google TV but in Europe you get the awful Vidaa OS where you can’t install Google Play Store. And the big national TV streaming apps are missing in their own app store where I live.
I talked to a retail seller and he said that they ultimately had to stop selling them because they got so many complaints and returns. Maybe it’s a licensing issue or something but it’s just such a braindead decision that is damaging the brand.
My mom has a Hisense TV (because my parents invariably buy the very cheapest they can. They’d get a B&W if they could), and it just started something new - on start up, it now shows a static page of color wash, then you choose a channel. It doesn’t start on the same channel you turned off last night. Must be a new update came through. She let it sit on the screensaver all day, because it never occurred to her to try to change the channel.
Not a big deal, but weird, and NOBODY asked for this.
Chargeback?
Would have loved to. It was just over one year (right after the warranty ended as well), though.
Is that your card issuer’s policy? I’ve done a chargeback past a year.
I went through something similar and am trying to recall, I think I did look and it was past the time period. I should have tried. It’s +2 years now for me.
Edit: Words.
My Hisense got worse in some ways after an update, support provided a file to get the previous firmware back and told me to disable updates. ¯\(ツ)/¯
Funny story, they actually did this to me before this all happened, and I was on a “I’m never going to update again” beta firmware that they gave me a link to, when the forced-update happened that broke my wifi. I didn’t disable any ADB-level processes, and I don’t think the system let me disable updates.
Was gonna say, LG does the same thing.
So far my only TV that hasn’t forced things in an absurd way has been my Sony… Guess what Sony just did? (Sold their Bravia TV line to TCL…)
I’ve never connected my LG TVs to the internet and they work pretty well.
I hear you can jailbreak them, which is appealing to me.
Are people loading AOSP on there or something? I’m tired of the telemetry and ads LG built in, but my blocklists have seemed to block one of my LG TVs from working. I have a disabled adult in my home and I think Kodi might be too complex for them.
Nothing like Android no. You get the ability to install apps not available in the webOS store, homebrew basically. This is useful for running hyperion (open source project) for driving your own LEDs behind the TV for ambiance. I haven’t peeked in that scene in a year or two but last time I did, the latest TV’s or latest updated TV’s were not easily hackable.
The person I was talking to just said they had jailbroken WebOS (LG runs webOS not android) and could do whatever.
Mine’s never connected to the internet before, so I don’t really feel any need to jailbreak it. Though apparently you can ssh in and do stuff, and that sounds kinda cool.
No shit? I might have to try that, only problem is my spouse will kill me if I break it… (primary TV)…
Sony offloaded manufacturing to TLC. They made a joint venture and TLC gets to manufacture and distribute them, Sony does development. Sony still has control. What we may see in the future is build quality decline. I doubt it’s gonna effect the software much.
that is comforting to hear, I had not heard any further details about the deal. Curious how it turns out for everyone.
Um…no they don’t?
Mine definitely does, disables applications and will lock the screen on update demand if you go long enough. At the bottom of the tv says it LG.
I’m feeling a lot less crazy having my strict rule on AV equipment:
It should work out the box without connecting to the internet, and it shouldn’t be connected without a damned good reason.
To the point that I insisted on setting up the PS5 and playing a game on it before connecting, just to be sure.changing the TV’s DNS servers or disconnecting it from the internet entirely.
Chiming in as an Australian budget VIDAA owner.
I spotted that this TV attempts to query 8.8.8.8, regardless of your DNS settings. I implemented a port 53 (DNS) redirect so those queries get resolved by my local server.
I also figured out which servers are serving up ads/tracking. I fired an email to Pete and got them added to his list. You’re welcome. I’m guessing a pi-hole would work with it.
https://pgl.yoyo.org/adservers/serverlist.php
I didn’t install the latest update, and probably never will. My TV contacts the unruly ACR servers, but the later firmware probably contacts nexxen.
People like you help to make the internet a better place — which matters a lot to me, because one of my most desperately held beliefs is that it is possible to take the hopefulness of the early internet and combine it with the wisdom of the last few decades to produce a more robust kind of hope
attempts to query 8.8.8.8, regardless of your DNS settings.
Streaming box / stream app makers have been working around local DNS for a long time. Sometimes of course they’re assholes that want to do shitty things and do this to make interdiction harder. But sometimes there are legitimate reasons. Ones I remember… users who don’t really understand what they’re doing can be overly aggressive with blocking and block things that are necessary for a particular service (causing support problems). Sometimes the ISPs DNS servers have shit performance, and using a well known commercial provider like cloudflare or google can improve performance at scale. It’s not always evil.
I fear the day these fucks figure out DOH or something. Not sure there’s any way to suppress or intercept that, short of just blocking all external traffic to the TV.
You need plain DNS to resolve the DoH server. Just block that.
Setting up DoH, I already provide the expected name AND an IP. No need for plain DNS at any step. There’s no reason a corporate TV can’t do that either.
A hardcoded IP is even easier to block.
deleted by creator
For other readers here is a tutorial to do DNS capture into a pihole server or other DNS
Thank you for this. I will check later today on my own tv to see what its pulling in the background.
Pro tip, buy a “Commercial Didplay” not a SmartTV and be happy.
Don’t let your TV be on the internet.
That’s one reason why I never connected mine to the internet.
This future fucking sucks
This is the cyberpunk future that the 80s kids were so hyped for.
I actually commented on that somewhere. Cyberpunk is a good example of authors warning us of dystopian possibilities, not glorifying them.
And the kids were hyped over it, like i said.
If anyone remembers the cyberpunk 80s TV show Max Headroom, then they know that TV was everywhere all the time in that universe. There was a scene in one episode where the police enter a suspect’s home and discover that she had an off switch on her TV. The cops react in shock to the fact, and one of them says “She’ll get twenty years for that.”
This universe also had “blipverts” which were a type of ad (advert…advertisement) that directly accessed your brain’s motivation to get you to buy something. The only problem was that blipverts also had a high chance of killing the people that watched it.
This was a TV show from almost 40 years ago now and it looks like these would be the things that are coming in the next few years from now.
The idea is even older. Orwell described telescreens - mandatory television with no off switch 77 years ago.
The blipverts were also several hours of ads in less than a second, which was the part that could kill you.
I loved in the story of that episode that the TV execs learned that blipverts could kill their audience, and briefly switched back to adverts, but when sales fell they went back to blipverts knowing the danger because it was more profitable. The writers of that show nailed a corporate dystopian future.
Our own hope was our protagonist Edison Carter “live and direct from Network 23”…who was also part of the giant corporate machine.
Sci-Fi dystopia/Cyberpunk has called a lot of things correctly.
Rather, rich people are copying dystopias
The torment nexus is very profitable.
Alright Blank Reg.
As a 80s kid I don’t recall being hyped. If anything all sci-fi books were warnings for us. Younger generations embraced the black mirror shit thought.
Somewhere between Snow Crash and Hackers it became the dream instead of the nightmare.
For sociopaths like Musk, yes. The rest of us, not so much.
True for hackers… Somehow it started my career… but snow crash feels a bit like Uber-gig which isn’t what I would look forward to.
Except a lot less fun. That one at least had cool lights, cool buildings, and flying cars. We got rotting infrastructure and Teslas.
I no longer get excited about new tech. For the most part, I feel like we peaked about 10 years ago. Medical advances are the outlier and represent real benefit, but consumer electronics are getting enshittified.
IF YOU BUY ANY TV, DO NOT CONNECT IT TO THE INTERNET.
Televisions were never meant to be smart devices. There’s no reason your screen should have software of its own. That would be like your face having a mind of its own.
Ummm, <eldrich horror rant text>
Applies anything too “smart” for its own good. Too many cases of those having obvious backdoors like trying to reverse ssh home, not to mention stupidest vulnerabilities imaginable nobody fixes
Cell modems are getting cheaper and cheaper, it’s only a matter of time before cheap smart TVs will flood the market with always-on telemetry and intrusive personalized ads.
That sounds like a great reason to return it and buy used lol
Until a few years later when all the used TVs have cell modems. The same thing is already happening in the used car market, it’s getting harder and harder to find a reliable vehicle that doesn’t have a cell modem and a long T&C that let’s them spy on you.
Well then I guess I make the room a giant faraday cage.
Like the other comment said, if you drive a car made after 2014, don’t bother. You drive a rolling tracking beacon regardless of what you do with your smart devices…
Tracking/privacy and ads are related, but separate issues. Cars might track where you are going, but they aren’t showing ads (yet).
Look up Stellantis pop up ads, then look how many brands Stellantis owns… Truly dystopian.
I haven’t experience this myself but I’ve read that some newer TV’s are forcing you to connect to the internet before you can do anything else.
The apps available on the TV may work when it’s new but quickly become nonfunctional because of a lack of updates. Best to use something else to stream, hopefully something more trustworthy.
Not to mention it seems like the apps on a smart tv get ignored when it comes to updates.
But why not give AI to the TV???
My face’s mind sits right behind my face.
