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How about we ban school uniforms instead? That seems much more attainable.
Yeah we should increase costs for parents, its about time they had less spending money!
And on top of that, I want my kids focused on fashion and not education. I want them worried that their clothes are not stylish enough when in class, or bullied for their personal style.
I would get rid of school uniforms.
How about you let consenting adults do what they want?
It seems to me that the UK is slowly, but surely, banning kink.
Keep in mind that this is the same country that used to chemically castrate men for the seemingly unforgivable crime of being in a homosexual relationship. Remember Alan Turing? They have learned nothing.
Poor Turing :(
Banning and shaming as not the way, example A:
Japan
Uk being the bad guys? Gasp Uk being puritans? Omgosh surprise gasp
I’m sorry? The kink of sexualizing schoolgirls? I’m all for ball gags and whips but if we don’t pause and do a sanity check when minors are asking adults not to treat them as sexual objects that’s a problem.
A lot of kink is an outlet for unethical behavior. Whips, pain, choking, dominance, submission, roleplay, furry, cnc, blood, other edgeplay, whatever.
Letting a weird dude fuck a woman dressed up in a school uniform is fine as long as it doesn’t go towards hurting children.
Puritans using WHAT MIGHT HAPPEN as a way to ban stuff is pretty popular right now, and has been for a long, long time, and basically ALWAYS results in a worse outcome, showing either ignorance and/or actual malice for the actually intended protected group.
So yeah, don’t rape people, but enjoy your cnc.
Don’t fuck children, but enjoy your roleplay.
Don’t beat people, but enjoy your consensual s&m.
Figure out what is ethical and what isn’t, and THEN work from there. Don’t just make leaps in logic or fearmonger. Banning schoolgirl costumes in porn isn’t a) gonna fix anything, or b) happen.
Schoolgirl and uniform porn is extra popular in places with uniforms, it has nothing to do with if there’s porn of it. Teach people ethics and morality, that’ll solve a LOT more issues than just child abuse. Education reform is the way; it always has been, and likely always will be.
I never said ban - bans don’t work. I asked us to pause and acknowledge that kids are feeling sexualized and exploited by the community around them. Considering the climate these kids are growing up in (i.e. the Epstein files, news stories about rape, AIs that strip them naked, etc.). I don’t blame them for trying to change something, anything. As adults we’ve done fuck all to make the world safe for them. Kids shouldn’t feel like they need to fix the porn industry to feel safe. That is such a profound failure of society and it’s embarrassing that our response to it is either puritan nonsense or closing ranks to protect the kink. Why aren’t we protecting kids from predation so they don’t feel like they have to take on the sex industral complex? Kink should be the last thing on their minds, and they absolutely shouldn’t be aware of those dark places in the world where they star in people’s fantasies. But children have been exploited, used, and abused. That needs to be addressed.
Agreed. This is a huge red flag.
Did you see that recent French interview with that extraordinarily articulate kid? Where he was talking about going hard left, rather than just replacing the leadership with more of the same because the current methods just don’t work.
Reminds me a lot of that, where when shit obviously isn’t working - we need to actually examine what’s going on, rather than just using it as a wedge or pushing an agenda, and that likely also means starting over, cutting down to a certain level.
The kink of consenting adults safely role-playing in whatever capacity they want.
I’m all for ball gags and whips
Based on your overt “won’t someone please think of the children” moralizing here, I’m gonna go out on a limb and say that you probably aren’t. Why not claim that ball gags and whips are sexualizing “torture” or “slavery”?
Here’s an honest “sanity check” for you:
Consenting adults can dress up like a kid without harming kids. Consenting adults can dress up like an animal without harming animals. Consenting adults can simulate violence and torture without actually being violent or dangerous. Consenting adults can act out goofy office sex scenes without actually being a menace in their actual workplace.
The idea that role playing in fetish pornography is at all correlated with sexual crimes is just as dubious as the idea that violence in video games can be correlated with violent crimes.
And you should probably be aware of the fact that the UK has also made an effort to ban sexual choking scenes in pornography. So, let’s not act like there isn’t a broader movement to legislate and criminalize various kinds of atypical sexual expression.
So, I’m sorry back, but I’m really not convinced that they are going to stop at just choking and school girl uniforms when there are so many other kinks of roleplay that they can be puritanical about.
It seems to me that the UK is slowly, but surely, banning kink.
you mean doing what it always has done?
70 years ago it was entirely improper to even have one bed for a married couple, let alone a couple having sexual relations for anything outside of procreation.
How about you let consenting adults do what they want?
The young girls and women don’t consent to being perved on in public and online. The problem is no doubt amplified by such suggestive and explicit material online. (Not to mention denudification apps).
The point of this is to reduce the association that happens where girls and women’s dress titillates the fantasies (and what, unfortunately follows) of mostly older men.
You’re right that anyone with a fetish for school children will have fewer avenues to practice that fetish, but that’s not a bad thing. I don’t know why you’re more concerned about the latter than the kids.
That’s a bad argument with a lot of bad assumptions
It’s a pretty well supported argument, actually. But by all means vibe away in the comments.
No, uh, actually I’m the one saying you’re making stuff up, you can’t just come back and say the same thing to me, but slightly differently and dismissively
The problem is no doubt amplified by such suggestive and explicit material online.
No doubt…? Actually, I do doubt what you’re saying very much… Is there anything to back it up?
Do you honestly believe that there is no difference between sexual roleplay between consenting adults and sexual crimes? If so, would you also argue that violence in media contributes to or causes violent crime?
This strikes me as little more than a puritanical justification to regulate what other consenting adults do in the bedroom.
I don’t understand why so many commenters are removing the child victims from this situation and pivoting to “consenting adults”.
The petition does not aim at what consenting adults do together. It concerns the production of pornography and it’s consumption.
Whether via sexualisation or simply memeification, it does frame school uniforms and school girls as sexual objects. Male peers of schoolgirls have easy access to such materials too.
We already know how easily psychological associations are formed (see Pavlov’s dog). But whether a child or an adult, making such a psychological association with schoolgirls and their clothing is surely “unnecessary”? There is an infinite amount of sexual material already available.
Give the children what they want. You won’t notice the difference.
I understand that frustration, but this isn’t the answer.
Teach boys not to harass girls (I’m a father of 4 boys, btw). None of the other stuff will stop the root cause of boys harassing girls.
My parents made the effort to teach my brothers and me to always treat women with respect, unfortunately consent wasnt really in the vocabulary in the early 2000’s, but in the end my brothers became sexist and overly macho anyway.
I have a young son and I don’t want him to become like my brothers or to align themselves with the machoistic values of the Manosphere.
I don’t know if it’s just my family but based on my personal experiences you can’t ensure that your children will follow your morals. They’re experiences at school and with their friends and with girls and the wider world and probably their individual temperaments end up determining who they become.
I believe that teaching boys about respect isnt enough, we also need to teach girls to not accept disrespect and to advocate for their consent as well. I also think that the blame game from people advocating for women online (or at least the most aggressive voices in that sphere of influence) that plays out on social media drives boys towards the manosphere influence rather than away from it. Many men look at the constant yelling about how men arent doing enough to stop they’re friends from assaulting women are just as powerless to do anything about that behaviour as the people yelling about it in the first place. I understand the frustration from the people that want this illegal immoral behaviour to stop but it’s a difficult problem to overcome and I would argue the blame game is doing more harm than good.
We probably can’t completely remove this kind of behaviour in the same way we won’t be able to completely remove murder from our societies but we have to find a more effective solution then what we are trying now.
My theory is that young boys are missing a strong sense of self that helps them to differentiate themselves from the girls Men and women are equally capable and should be treated equally under the law but we need to help boys understand their place in the world.
Strange. Neither I nor my children had to be taught that. We instinctually knew girls and women were people who deserve respect.
I’m not disagreeing with you in the slightest. Just commenting on how different people and places can be.
I’m not disagreeing with either of you, but teenage buys teach each other. This is usually where the disrespect comes from. Gotta teach the younger boys preventatively so they won’t flip as teenagers. These are formatitive years.
The world teaches kids to objectify women, that’s why parenting needs to counter it.
You probably did get taught, but maybe just not explicitly. And maybe other people get taught that it IS okay to harass and that women are lesser, and maybe explicitly and maybe not.
Like… Learn and teach morality and ethics.
You are absolutely right. It was implicit, not explicit. You see correct behaviour and adopt it before you understand it. I was silly.
This is probably nature vs. nurture, but context and environment can shape morals without ever being said out loud. It still helps to just lay it out with a talk, you don’t know what hides beneath the surface till too late.
I swear to god gen Z are closet puritans. Everything is about sex and shame with them, they won’t even fuck.
The article says these girls are 15yo, so not Gen Z but Gen Alpha. But I kinda agree. While I have massive respect for how involved in activism the youth are, I’ve seen a sharp turn towards the puritan side, the age of ‘sex, drugs and rock and roll’ is over. The sexuality that once was liberating and empowering is now objectifying, but that swinging is always how society moves forward.
Once again, Demolition Man was right.
It’s the right wing misinformation that pulls them into extremism and puritan thinking. Manosphere for the boys, tradwife for the girls. It’s incredibly effective.
I don’t think it’s even that, this is a generation where without concent their lives have been recorded online since before they were even born (parents posting baby names or gender hopes on facebook, etc). They are forced by social and economic pressures to merge their online life with real life, and are constantly monitored attacked by adults and other students for literally anything. Being a dumb edgelord on facebook when you’re 12 can now lose you future college or job opportunities. I think the whole generation has panopticon PTSD where the only way to ensure your archived past wont haunt you is to avoid anything perceived as cringe or controversial, and in turn enforce those rigid social norms on others.
Interesting point
As about as your icon.
I’m more aware of the fucked up and abusive manosphere.
Is “tradwife” actually a thing?
I mean, if literally EVERYONE was a tradwife, would it be a bad thing?I think if everyone was in the manosphere we would be fucked.
It’s not bad on a surface level, but they use that in with people to push strict gender roles and puritan beliefs regarding sex. I’m technically a trad wife, somehow I don’t think they’d see my perspective as cohesive with their ideology.
We taught them this, didn’t we… 😬
Then the real problem is the exposure of minors to so much porn that they would have an opinion on this.
While I don’t disagree in principle, yeah, good luck with that.
Yeah, they will have a really hard time getting school uniforms banned from pornography
Why are you in the principal?
OH MY GOD YOURE ONE OF THOSE PORNO FREAKS WEARING THE SCHOOL UNIFORMS AREN’T YOU
You got me. I fixed it ;-). That’s one of those ones I have to think about before putting it in a sentence, which I didn’t do there.
Spelling matters.
Not for puns.
How about this also: ban school uniforms. Let kids dress how they like and express themselves. Or nah?
Too easy.
The UK, Japan, Ireland, New Zealand, and Australia are basically the only countries in the developed world that use school uniforms.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Developed_country
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_uniforms_by_country
Maybe just drop the uniforms, so that there isn’t an outfit nationally-associated with “young female”?
EDIT: And I’d add that the bulk of the schoolgirl uniform fetishization that I’ve run into in the US has been out of Japanese media.
There are many positives to uniforms. But requiring girls to wear skirts and not allowing them to wear trousers is a red flag that should be addressed.
In the Aussie summer boys would probably be happy with skirts if those issues were addressed (sweaty balls suck).
I can imagine. The keys here are consent and choice.
There are many positives to uniforms.
No, there aren’t.
Sounds like you’ve really looked into it!
Since enforcing conformity on children is something that always gives authoritarians a big old woody, there are absolutely plenty of schools here in the US that also mandate uniforms. Mainly they’re private and religious schools, but some of our public schools do, too. And many others have dress codes so strict they basically just amount to a uniform anyway.
Before Japanese culture and media was mass exported to the West as it is today, the uniform nationally associated with young girls here was the Catholic schoolgirl uniform. And its appearance in pornography was just as incessant.
Uniforms are good because it stops the whole “fashion clique” bullshit. Or at least MASIVELY curbs it.
And I say that as someone that has spent time in the US public/free/commoner schools AND the UK public/free/commoner schools.School uniforms are a good thing.
But “girls wear dresses” is the strange thing. It should be “dresses, shorts or trousers” with generic specifications for these (so no hot pants or yoga pants kinda idea). Same for the shirts, shoes, socks, tie.
And school uniforms are obviously an underage thing. There might be 18 year olds still in high/secondary school, but that is a FRACTION compared to the underage people that have to wear school uniforms.
I’m for the ban. It makes sense.
Very interesting topic. Very astute observation, amazing organisation, and a fantastic debate to have.
I think some sort of middle ground has to be reached. Define what the UK school uniform actually is (and make it open and accepting, review it often). And ban the whole “schoolgirl skirt” aesthetic in porn (black shoes, white/black socks, grey/black skirt, white collared shirt).I don’t think governments have anything between illegal and legal. So they have to make it illegal and decide/hint/inform/decree/whatever how much it is pursued and prosecuted… which is how they greyscale it.
There IS a “schoolgirl aesthetic”. You know it when you see it.
“School disco” is a common theme night at student clubs.What an interesting debate.
I’m all for it: “school uniform” is primarily an underage thing.
The current youth has raised this as a national (international?) debate, and they should be rewarded.
I have no issues with this kind of porn being illegal, it will still be accessible for those that want/need it (everything is always accessible on the internet).The US has public, home-schooling and private schools. There are no “commoners” in the US.
Yeh, it’s just that the UK has all sorts of different types of schools ( https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/37696598 ).
I don’t really know/remember if the US has a bunch of different types of schools
Whatever go to hell losers. I’m sick of this puritanical generation.
Did you have a good day today?
Hell doesn’t exist. When you die, all goes black like when you’re sleeping, except you don’t sleep and that’s all, folks!™
I mean, even if you don’t, but when you say it, it can’t be true.
