The glass of wine is likely due to a selection bias in Tea Total people. Most people who are completely sober, are so either because they are recovering alcoholics, or have other health issues.
Most people who are healthy and have no prior alcoholism issues drink at least occasionaly, which introduces a selection bias favouring people with health issues as strict non drinkers, which causes not drinking at all to be correlated with worse health than drinking occasionally.
That’s teetotal, nothing to do with the nice hot cuppa
Also last time I saw teetotalers being less healthy than occasional drinkers was decades ago before never drinking became normal among the youth as they came of age
Back then the only reason to not drink was to treat alcoholism or a serious problem. Now people abstain because their friends do
OP is referring to the j-curve historically seen in studies about drinking. Because researchers didn’t control for people who stopped drinking after years of abuse or people who couldn’t drink because of other health issues, it looked like having 0 drinks per day led to worse health outcomes than 1-2 drinks per day. Because of that, many health organizations spent decades telling people that 1-2 drinks per day was better for you than 0 drinks per day.
Someone finally controlled for those variables a few years ago, and the j-curve vanished. Most health organizations now say they’re is no amount of alcohol that is safe to consume.
So it’s got nothing to do with Gen Z drinking habit specifically, and the science has been corrected since. But a lot of people still internalized and parrot the “1-2 drinks is healthy” thing.
Sure. Any driving you do increases your risk of death. But it’s likely you need to drive for other reasons that reduce your risk of death (like buying food).
Drinking is different because no one needs to drink.
It means that any amount of alcohol increases the odds of you dying sooner or having other negative health effects sooner (which will lead to you dying sooner). There is no amount that won’t increase those odds. It says nothing about how much any given drink would impact your life span. I’m not saying it’s negligible or significant, but I can’t be bothered to look it up.
because they can’t afford it. prices are up, incomes are down. Gen Z starting incomes aren’t much higher than the start incomes of people from 10-20 year ago, but booze prices are triple what they were, i’ve actually seen them start to come down recently because well, even older folks can’t afford $20 cocktails or $20 four packs of beer. when I was 25 $20 got you a 24 pack of craft beer. or a 48 of the cheap shit.
That might have something to do with it. But gen-z seems to have more a purity culture than millennials and gen-x had.
Many are very into exercise and fitness from a very young age. Control their diets. Sleep super early, get up early.
They are going less to clubs (and shitty dive bars). Doing less drugs. Having less sex.
You can say its all because of money. But broke teenagers and young adults of previous generations had their fun, went out, destroyed their bodies. You know, it can be REALLY cheap to get fucked up and well, get fucked or fuck.
Yeah but these (usually flawed) studies that have wormed their way into the public consciousness were done long before gen z was drinking age. From up-to-date information it’s pretty clear that any amount of any kind of alcohol is quite bad for you. Obviously increasing with quantity.
It varies dramatically for different types of wine, even within the broad categories (red, white, rosé, etc.). Some wines are grapier and will be reminiscent of juice you’ve had. Others are further away from that. Invariably they will taste different if you’ve never had wine before, even moreso if you’ve not had alcohol.
If you are interested in wine for the experience, I’d recommend situations where it’s well-paired with food. The best wine I’ve ever drank has been with good food that complemented it.
A good bottle of wine is only in the $20-$30 range. IMO, every wine I have ever had that costs more than $30 is not any better than wine that is $30. Ive tried quite a bit of different stuff up to $75-$300 bottles that I got for free. None of it was worth more than a $30 bottles, at least to my palette. The one exception probably being Veuve Cliquot champagne, which is really good but costs like $50.
There is a pretty big difference between a $7 bottle of wine and a $30 bottle of wine though. Honestly wine is kind of an acquired taste, and there are a lot of varieties. If you want something good but also cheap then you cant go wrong with a $10 bottle of sweet table wine. Any other kind of wine its worth it to spend for something in the $20-$30 price range if you want it to be decent
I am not American and where I live, wine is illegal (exceptions are there and loopholes too) so it is difficult for me to drink wine in my community and country.
The basic recipe for wine is grape juice, yeast, and time, and yeasts are everywhere. It’s not hard to “accidentally” turn an opened bottle of grape juice into wine.
Depends on the wine. I wanted to see for myself so I bought 2 bottles from the same producer. Same type of wine and stuff as well. One bottle was 25-ish€ and the other was 80-ish. I could instantly tell which the more expensive wine was. Then I asked my wife to taste without telling her which is which. She could also instantly tell. Was it worth the price? Fuck no. I usually buy in the 10-15 range from a guy that I trust since supermarket stuff is hit and miss and I like trying new ones, not just buying the same one every time.
I suppose thats kind of what I meant. For sure there are actual differences between a $30 bottle and an $80 bottle, but after $30 it is mostly a game of massively diminishing returns. A $60 bottle of wine is nowhere near as good of a value as two $30 bottles of wine. A $300 bottle is sure as shit nowhere near good enough to be better than the value of 10 $30 bottles
Other than Cliqout, Ive never had a bottle of wine worth over $30 that I would ever pay for myself. Im a big fan of Saldo, which doesnt have hardly any label on it. I figured it would be good wine since its definitely not selling itself with a sexy label lol
I’m lucky to live in France so there’s plenty of affordable and good local wine but I’ll definitely keep an eye on the import section for that one. Heard good things about Californian wines. So I was already curious but never actually tried any.
personally I don’t think any alcoholic beverage tastes good - at least not the traditional ones like wine, beer, spirits. I do still drink and have done since I was a kid because it does make you feel kind of happy and socialising is easier and more enjoyable. (just two or three drinks though - more than that and it starts having negative effects)
You’re not going to “enjoy everything,” or even “experience everything,” in one lifetime. That said, you should try some things, given an opportunity. And some of the most valuable experiences may well be ones you didn’t particularly enjoy. But enjoyment need not make a slave of us, and is also nice.
Well I don’t think so cuz it is forced upon us, rather than our conscious choice. For rich, there is no problem though. They drink and party. These laws are implemented only on poor and middle class.
No I just meant I think that wanting to experience life rather than needlessly restricting yourself of everything “unhealthy” to try and gain another day without these experiences is a good philosophy.
I understand that you are not the one deciding to restrict yourself in this case. That and the unequal enforcement of the law on the rich are both another thing entirely and complete bullshit.
Hope you get the opportunity to enjoy more out of life, buddy.
No one recommends 9 hours sleep. Humans in the wild (hunter gatherers) sleep about 6 hours. People in the industrialised world sleep about 7 or 8 hours. We don’t know whether 8 hours is better or worse than six
I agree. Sitting my yass all day playing video games? Sure, 4-6 hours will be okay. Doing yard work and manual labor in 110 degree weather, I’ll see you in 14 hours. Also, I have sleep apnea so I’m used to feeling dead all day.
There are different levels of poverty that vary drastically in quality of life, and are highly dependent on what region you live in.
Being poor basically anywhere in Europe is a lot easier than being poor in America. Being poor in a state like California or New York is going to be easier than being poor in Oklahoma or Alabama.
Different regions have different local governments that have a huge impact on the social safety network afforded to the working poor and the disabled.
In my experience, I haven’t known very many poor people who weren’t disabled that had a lot of extra free time on their hands. Good habits are hard to keep when you work two to three jobs 6-7 days a week to make a wage that barely pays the bills.
Yeap, an unfortunate side effect of “Obamacare” mandating corporations provide coverage for full time employees was everyone cutting hours back to make sure no one was full time. Labour laws here are a joke.
People who live longer:
People who drink a glass of wine every night.
People who buy organic and cook whole foods at home.
People who spend 30+ minutes a day being activr/at the gym.
People who get 9+ hours of sleep every night.
People who have less chronic stress.
People who get regular checkups/screenings at the doctor.
So… rich people that have the time and can afford to do all of those things or have them done for them.
The glass of wine is likely due to a selection bias in Tea Total people. Most people who are completely sober, are so either because they are recovering alcoholics, or have other health issues.
Most people who are healthy and have no prior alcoholism issues drink at least occasionaly, which introduces a selection bias favouring people with health issues as strict non drinkers, which causes not drinking at all to be correlated with worse health than drinking occasionally.
That’s teetotal, nothing to do with the nice hot cuppa
Also last time I saw teetotalers being less healthy than occasional drinkers was decades ago before never drinking became normal among the youth as they came of age
Back then the only reason to not drink was to treat alcoholism or a serious problem. Now people abstain because their friends do
Idk… a lot of gen Z people I know just don’t drink at all
OP is referring to the j-curve historically seen in studies about drinking. Because researchers didn’t control for people who stopped drinking after years of abuse or people who couldn’t drink because of other health issues, it looked like having 0 drinks per day led to worse health outcomes than 1-2 drinks per day. Because of that, many health organizations spent decades telling people that 1-2 drinks per day was better for you than 0 drinks per day.
Someone finally controlled for those variables a few years ago, and the j-curve vanished. Most health organizations now say they’re is no amount of alcohol that is safe to consume.
So it’s got nothing to do with Gen Z drinking habit specifically, and the science has been corrected since. But a lot of people still internalized and parrot the “1-2 drinks is healthy” thing.
No amount of alcohol is safe? Is that like saying no amount of driving is safe?
Sure. Any driving you do increases your risk of death. But it’s likely you need to drive for other reasons that reduce your risk of death (like buying food).
Drinking is different because no one needs to drink.
Haha, ymmv but I find driving to be unnecessary
Yes but this depends significantly on where you live.
For sure, I’m very lucky to live where I do.
Yep.
alcohol is driving?
Exactly!
I meant that plenty of people drink reasonable amounts alcohol all the time with no apparent issues.
It means that any amount of alcohol increases the odds of you dying sooner or having other negative health effects sooner (which will lead to you dying sooner). There is no amount that won’t increase those odds. It says nothing about how much any given drink would impact your life span. I’m not saying it’s negligible or significant, but I can’t be bothered to look it up.
Come on, you have to say it’s positively correlated rather than causative that’s the whole point of the thread.
This isn’t a hill I want to die on, but I don’t think it’s a meaningful claim without a bit more nuance.
because they can’t afford it. prices are up, incomes are down. Gen Z starting incomes aren’t much higher than the start incomes of people from 10-20 year ago, but booze prices are triple what they were, i’ve actually seen them start to come down recently because well, even older folks can’t afford $20 cocktails or $20 four packs of beer. when I was 25 $20 got you a 24 pack of craft beer. or a 48 of the cheap shit.
That might have something to do with it. But gen-z seems to have more a purity culture than millennials and gen-x had.
Many are very into exercise and fitness from a very young age. Control their diets. Sleep super early, get up early.
They are going less to clubs (and shitty dive bars). Doing less drugs. Having less sex.
You can say its all because of money. But broke teenagers and young adults of previous generations had their fun, went out, destroyed their bodies. You know, it can be REALLY cheap to get fucked up and well, get fucked or fuck.
Yeah but these (usually flawed) studies that have wormed their way into the public consciousness were done long before gen z was drinking age. From up-to-date information it’s pretty clear that any amount of any kind of alcohol is quite bad for you. Obviously increasing with quantity.
What is social murder, Alex?
How does wine taste? I really wanna taste wine before I die.
They are varied. Red wines have more tannins than white, white wines come in different sweetness, with the less sweet ones described as dry
If you wanted to try a red wine I would suggest starting on merlot
I wouldn’t recommend drinking an entire bottle in a day. Opened wine can be kept in the fridge for a few days
How do you know if a wine is expired? Will it get insects on it or what?
No insects, the taste will just get worse as it approaches funky
The crazy thing about wine is that it tastes wiiiiiiiiiiildly different based on the grape and process.
fermentation plays an important role in determining the taste i guess.
It varies dramatically for different types of wine, even within the broad categories (red, white, rosé, etc.). Some wines are grapier and will be reminiscent of juice you’ve had. Others are further away from that. Invariably they will taste different if you’ve never had wine before, even moreso if you’ve not had alcohol.
If you are interested in wine for the experience, I’d recommend situations where it’s well-paired with food. The best wine I’ve ever drank has been with good food that complemented it.
A good bottle of wine is only in the $20-$30 range. IMO, every wine I have ever had that costs more than $30 is not any better than wine that is $30. Ive tried quite a bit of different stuff up to $75-$300 bottles that I got for free. None of it was worth more than a $30 bottles, at least to my palette. The one exception probably being Veuve Cliquot champagne, which is really good but costs like $50.
There is a pretty big difference between a $7 bottle of wine and a $30 bottle of wine though. Honestly wine is kind of an acquired taste, and there are a lot of varieties. If you want something good but also cheap then you cant go wrong with a $10 bottle of sweet table wine. Any other kind of wine its worth it to spend for something in the $20-$30 price range if you want it to be decent
I am not American and where I live, wine is illegal (exceptions are there and loopholes too) so it is difficult for me to drink wine in my community and country.
The basic recipe for wine is grape juice, yeast, and time, and yeasts are everywhere. It’s not hard to “accidentally” turn an opened bottle of grape juice into wine.
That would make for a very unpredictable result, and even as someone who is not that much into wine, I would advise against doing that
Depends on the wine. I wanted to see for myself so I bought 2 bottles from the same producer. Same type of wine and stuff as well. One bottle was 25-ish€ and the other was 80-ish. I could instantly tell which the more expensive wine was. Then I asked my wife to taste without telling her which is which. She could also instantly tell. Was it worth the price? Fuck no. I usually buy in the 10-15 range from a guy that I trust since supermarket stuff is hit and miss and I like trying new ones, not just buying the same one every time.
I suppose thats kind of what I meant. For sure there are actual differences between a $30 bottle and an $80 bottle, but after $30 it is mostly a game of massively diminishing returns. A $60 bottle of wine is nowhere near as good of a value as two $30 bottles of wine. A $300 bottle is sure as shit nowhere near good enough to be better than the value of 10 $30 bottles
Other than Cliqout, Ive never had a bottle of wine worth over $30 that I would ever pay for myself. Im a big fan of Saldo, which doesnt have hardly any label on it. I figured it would be good wine since its definitely not selling itself with a sexy label lol
I’m lucky to live in France so there’s plenty of affordable and good local wine but I’ll definitely keep an eye on the import section for that one. Heard good things about Californian wines. So I was already curious but never actually tried any.
Colombia valley wines are better than California wines, IMO.
I had a nepo coworker gloat about spilling $500/bottle champagne in NYC for his birthday party. I said, “why aren’t you drinking that?” Sick.
If you haven’t tried it because you have to avoid alcohol, good news - alcohol free wine is hitting the market.
Tbh, it’s not the most amazing example of wine, but the ones I tried were not awful either. It would give you a good example how wine tastes like.
I wanna drink alcohol bro.
personally I don’t think any alcoholic beverage tastes good - at least not the traditional ones like wine, beer, spirits. I do still drink and have done since I was a kid because it does make you feel kind of happy and socialising is easier and more enjoyable. (just two or three drinks though - more than that and it starts having negative effects)
Tastes a lot like grapes that have gone off, actually. So just imagine that. Maybe you’ll live longer.
Well I don’t wanna live longer. I wanna enjoy everything in this life before I die.
You’re not going to “enjoy everything,” or even “experience everything,” in one lifetime. That said, you should try some things, given an opportunity. And some of the most valuable experiences may well be ones you didn’t particularly enjoy. But enjoyment need not make a slave of us, and is also nice.
Here for a good time, not for a long time.
Based
Well I don’t think so cuz it is forced upon us, rather than our conscious choice. For rich, there is no problem though. They drink and party. These laws are implemented only on poor and middle class.
No I just meant I think that wanting to experience life rather than needlessly restricting yourself of everything “unhealthy” to try and gain another day without these experiences is a good philosophy.
I understand that you are not the one deciding to restrict yourself in this case. That and the unequal enforcement of the law on the rich are both another thing entirely and complete bullshit.
Hope you get the opportunity to enjoy more out of life, buddy.
Pretty terrible, honestly. My review is: “Ugh, this grape juice has gone really bad!”
I don’t mind the occasional whiskey, and I really like Amaretto … but IMO, wine is just gross.
what is amaretto?
Almond flavored liquor, it tastes sweet and nutty
There are notable exceptions, but in general:
White wine: candy.
Red wine: asshole.
No one recommends 9 hours sleep. Humans in the wild (hunter gatherers) sleep about 6 hours. People in the industrialised world sleep about 7 or 8 hours. We don’t know whether 8 hours is better or worse than six
I think at that point it just varies too much by individual. Some people are completely fine with 6 hours a night. I am not one of those people.
I agree. Sitting my yass all day playing video games? Sure, 4-6 hours will be okay. Doing yard work and manual labor in 110 degree weather, I’ll see you in 14 hours. Also, I have sleep apnea so I’m used to feeling dead all day.
i grew up poor and did most of those things, except from the organic whole foods stuff, which didn’t even exist where i lived.
you don’t have to be rich rich, you just have to have free time and good habits. and lots of poor people have lots of free time and very bad habits.
There are different levels of poverty that vary drastically in quality of life, and are highly dependent on what region you live in.
Being poor basically anywhere in Europe is a lot easier than being poor in America. Being poor in a state like California or New York is going to be easier than being poor in Oklahoma or Alabama.
Different regions have different local governments that have a huge impact on the social safety network afforded to the working poor and the disabled.
In my experience, I haven’t known very many poor people who weren’t disabled that had a lot of extra free time on their hands. Good habits are hard to keep when you work two to three jobs 6-7 days a week to make a wage that barely pays the bills.
“Two to three jobs” is already a statement that in Europe would apply to basically no one, while it’s a common reality in US
Yeap, an unfortunate side effect of “Obamacare” mandating corporations provide coverage for full time employees was everyone cutting hours back to make sure no one was full time. Labour laws here are a joke.
I had to sell all my free time for some ultra-processed foods