I mean…the code isn’t copied but the design is and it honestly frustrates me. Like yes Linux performance is improving…but I personally don’t like adding kernel functionality specifically for the benefit of wine
interesting, worked in cad/cam and arch viz but never ran into it called mcad. always specific applications like catia or autocad, onshape etc… assumed it was an application name
There’s also ECAD software for electronics. I believe a lot of product teams use both ECAD and MCAD. The former for designing the circuit board, the latter for designing the case and any moving parts.
The game supply is built against those APIs. If games are to be played on Linux it is necessary to adapt to the games until Linux is big enough that games change for us.
No, that’s not quite the same thing, I fundamentally don’t think it should be Linux’s goal to be a good windows emulator. It’s fine if wine exists and people use wine for that, but I don’t think that should be a goal for the kernel, this starts pushing into that territory. Hardware support very much is the Kernel’s job and modules which benefit it should be there if it’s meaningful
Except this is a scheduler issue from my understanding.
You can make the argument to put everything into user space, but it’s a performance issue.
One of the growing huge applications of linux these days is gaming, which depends hugely on performance, and almost every gamer out there is likely using wine (generally, without even realising it).
It’s not a scheduler issue, it’s a windows apps do thread synchronization differently to linux apps. Additionally fsync in the vast majority of use cases works just fine, the article notes most performance comparisons are against vanilla wine synchronization, i.e. without fsync or even esync. Regardless I still don’t think the kernel should be emulating windows scheduling behavior.
It’s literally that simple… but yeah, it is sync, you are correct
We could debate the advantage and disadvantages of a lot of things in the main kernel. There’s so much stuff in there that only benefits certain limited applications, and we could make the argument for userspace for almost everything, including a lot of filesystem drivers
Like it or not, wine and gaming is probably the biggest avenue where Linux is winning on the desktop at the moment (especially thanks to steam). We shouldn’t ignore it
I’ve been using Linux for at least 20+ years now. And seen a lot of stuff come and go.
A lot of distros are shipping with ntsync anyway, and, it’s something that will definitely get maintained
I already don’t compile it in…I’m just stating my opinion. I don’t think that should be something in the kernel. I complain, but I also do something about it.
Also, I grew up trying games like Unreal tournament on Linux.
At the time, I thought wine was stupid and would never catch up.
However we’re at the point that a lot of games already run better on Linux than windows even via wine… There are even more opportunities here in the future
I mean…the code isn’t copied but the design is and it honestly frustrates me. Like yes Linux performance is improving…but I personally don’t like adding kernel functionality specifically for the benefit of wine
I honestly welcome it. It brings up a lot more than just games in the future like MCAD and maybe even more creative apps.
?
CAD software for Mechanical design (mechanical engineers use it to design motors and transmissions and other machinery).
interesting, worked in cad/cam and arch viz but never ran into it called mcad. always specific applications like catia or autocad, onshape etc… assumed it was an application name
Because if I say CAD then it would include KiCAD which is rock solid already and IMHO is perfect for most SME too
cool
There’s also ECAD software for electronics. I believe a lot of product teams use both ECAD and MCAD. The former for designing the circuit board, the latter for designing the case and any moving parts.
The game supply is built against those APIs. If games are to be played on Linux it is necessary to adapt to the games until Linux is big enough that games change for us.
But if you read the article even valve said fsync was basically good enough, why go this far if the improvements compared to fsync aren’t amazing?
Fsync is also mentioned as having issues when emulating ntsync, and the improvements for some games are still quite good.
Why? Lots of people are using wine.
That’s like saying we shouldn’t be including modules for reverse engineered hardware that only benefits that company
@auzy1 @Scoopta My problem with wine is that it can not work for most programs.
Depends. For games it’s usage is fairly common these days. It’s transparent in steam
It’s not perfect for apps but it does a surprisingly good job
No, that’s not quite the same thing, I fundamentally don’t think it should be Linux’s goal to be a good windows emulator. It’s fine if wine exists and people use wine for that, but I don’t think that should be a goal for the kernel, this starts pushing into that territory. Hardware support very much is the Kernel’s job and modules which benefit it should be there if it’s meaningful
Except this is a scheduler issue from my understanding.
You can make the argument to put everything into user space, but it’s a performance issue.
One of the growing huge applications of linux these days is gaming, which depends hugely on performance, and almost every gamer out there is likely using wine (generally, without even realising it).
It’s not a scheduler issue, it’s a windows apps do thread synchronization differently to linux apps. Additionally fsync in the vast majority of use cases works just fine, the article notes most performance comparisons are against vanilla wine synchronization, i.e. without fsync or even esync. Regardless I still don’t think the kernel should be emulating windows scheduling behavior.
Don’t compile it in then…
It’s literally that simple… but yeah, it is sync, you are correct
We could debate the advantage and disadvantages of a lot of things in the main kernel. There’s so much stuff in there that only benefits certain limited applications, and we could make the argument for userspace for almost everything, including a lot of filesystem drivers
Like it or not, wine and gaming is probably the biggest avenue where Linux is winning on the desktop at the moment (especially thanks to steam). We shouldn’t ignore it
I’ve been using Linux for at least 20+ years now. And seen a lot of stuff come and go.
A lot of distros are shipping with ntsync anyway, and, it’s something that will definitely get maintained
I already don’t compile it in…I’m just stating my opinion. I don’t think that should be something in the kernel. I complain, but I also do something about it.
Yeah. That’s fair enough.
Both sides have merit. I get both angles tbh
Also, I grew up trying games like Unreal tournament on Linux.
At the time, I thought wine was stupid and would never catch up.
However we’re at the point that a lot of games already run better on Linux than windows even via wine… There are even more opportunities here in the future
Well, luckily, you can personally have a kernel without that functionality
XD, I do, I already build my own kernel and turn it off…just saying I don’t like it