As I said somewhere many replies ago…I wouldn’t spend my energy advocating to take care of a problem that figuratively doesn’t exist, but rather for a problem that does. If men are top of your mind, sexual violence against men is underreported and a huge issue…that, ironically/tragically is tied to this issue.
Laws have never been passed to address issues that don’t exist, and have always been passed as a deterrent to an existing problem. You can wish it were another way.
Take note that I never called you hysterical…that came from you.
Up until point I don’t really know what you’re arguing, is all. Apparently coverage for a problem that doesn’t exist.
I’ve said it a few times, but at minimum the law highlights an existing legal and social problem. Generalizing the law implies that the problem is equal, and removes language specific to who it’s trying to protect.
Sure, advocate for that, then…I don’t see the value in arguing against a law that, at worst, does nothing legally and creates awareness…like this conversation. I’m sure neither of us knew as much about the issue before as we do, now.
I don’t agree that it doesn’t change anything: it serves two purposes. First, the law has unique statutes when assessing culpability…second it serves as a public awareness tool, a deterrent, when the crimes happen - and all laws are ultimately intended to be deterrents.
You’re just saying “murder is murder is murder”, and that’s simply not how any court functions.
Yes, it matters. Women are different from men as are the motivations to murder each gender…given that men and women don’t always have the same power or role in western society, for example.
I’m just repeating myself at this point: generalizing a law designed to protect women could make it pointless. It’s just word games, and we’re talking about a very serious issue.
It’s not an “improvement” to remove language from people at risk, and add language from people functionally not at risk. Then you’d have a case where the law is potentially pointless, since it duplicates an existing law.
In other words: being motivated to murder somebody because they’re a woman is different to being motivated because they’re a man. You can advocate for a law that protects men, if you’re actually interested in parity…but legislatures don’t tend to pass laws to protect something that figuratively doesn’t happen.
Femicide is a type of murder. You seem to just be playing word games. Culpability is important for justice. Different types are murder are treated differently…it’s not a complicated concept.
I don’t even know what you’re trying to argue at the end. There are a lot of important “pillars” when you’re dealing with real world issues. You don’t just focus on one/your preferred pillar or attack the other pillars…you work together to build more and buttress what you have.
There’s nothing interesting to me in this comment. You seem more concerned with semantics and self-assurance than engaging with the issue.
I said what I mean and I have nothing more to add.
Are you the layer for this commenter? “I know you are but what am I” doesn’t interest me, as a rhetorical tactic. Speak for yourself.
Yes, the law is discriminatory. Men and women are different, and we should discriminate between them in terms of culpability for murder - when appropriate. In this instance it’s appropriate because there’s an outsized number of women being targeted for their gender.
No, removing gender from a law designed to address a gender issue would discriminate against the gender it’s trying to protect. I’m guessing you were trying to say does it discriminate against men: no, it doesn’t.
No, thank you. I’m not interested in some random chart with no sourcing.
The first word in PPP is “purchasing”. It should be self-evident.
My comment wasn’t intended to be zero sum. Both countries have elements of socialism and capitalism…but one certainly “leans” more in the capitalist direction.
Again, making the law non-gender specific would be trying to protect a category that functionally doesn’t exist…and it would remove specific protections for the very people it’s trying to protect. It would actually do what some opponents are incorrectly speculating this law does to existing murder laws.
Are you advocating that we protect men from gender-based physical violence? Is this important to you? Your argument appears to be semantic and performative…rooted in a so-called “men rights” argument. The logical argument wouldn’t be to remove a law that’s needed, but rather add a law that specifically protects men…because women and men aren’t the same and they require unique approaches.
My approach, the humanist approach, would be: yes this is forward movement, and we can look at other categories that are also at risk. For example, if you were concerned about the safety of men you wouldn’t spin your tires on something that figuratively doesn’t happen and advocate for, say, additional laws to protect men from sexual violence (a category that is often ignored and woefully under-reported).
I absolutely agree. In my mind this is an example where people could be “yes-and”ing the law: Yes, female victims absolutely need more nuanced protection, and male sexual assault victims need more nuanced protection (for example).
The reason you don’t see a lot of these folks arguing for a men’s equivalent…is they know that it’s functionally not a problem…which also undercuts their own argument.
I can imagine…I work in poverty outreach and with at risk youth…I hear some grotesque things from across the spectrum.
I’m a full Reddit refugee…a few months ago I got a 3 day auto ban for directly quoting Worf from Star Trek. Not going back, this time…the time I was away from it made me realize what an enshitified mess it has become.
PPP also isn’t an appropriate measure because it partially assumes capitlaism.
it’s an appropriate measure.
You can’t compare a large country with low population density to a small one with high density, for example.
No, not “all measures”…by your words - you appear to be making an American exceptionalism argument. Canada is in the top 10, the USA isn’t. I agree that China isn’t.
It’s not “more than murder”, no. It’s a type of murder.
No there shouldn’t, the vast majority of cases of rapes are committed by men. If you were being logically consistent, you’d advocate for a different word/charge for cases of rape against men - because that’s one of the largest category of unreported sexual crime.
No it would not be “easier” to pass laws against categories that functionally dot exist, for example.
I said above that, in perfect world, all manners of culpability would be handled differently - but that’s not realistic. What’s realistic is passing a law against something that happens frequently.
Yes, and when somebody murders a woman because they’re a woman, now there’s a charge where the relevant jurors can take into account state of mind etc.
That’s why I used the wording I did. They both potentially carry life sentences. It should go without saying that femicide is a type of murder with a portion of the culpability “baked into it”.
The reason is because the genders aren’t the same. If there was (functionally) anyone being murdered because they were a man, then the law would also cover men. It’s curious you mention “other identity-based hate crime laws”, because Italy happens to not have categories for homosexual people like other jurisdictions might - for example.
Yes, I believe that gender-based crime is a different crime and it should be treated as such. Ideally there would be a category for the infinite potential culpabilities for murder, but that’s not realistic. I think femicide is realistic because the crime is relatively common.
The obvious irony here is that if society were equal towards genders…we could pass one-size fits-all-laws, because it wouldn’t matter.