- cross-posted to:
- news@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- news@lemmy.world
cross-posted from: https://lemmy.world/post/39664905
Lieutenant General Christian Freuding fears the longstanding military partnership between the two allies is unravelling under President Trump’s administration
The Pentagon has “cut off contact” between American defence officials and their German counterparts, according to the head of Germany’s army.
The United States has traditionally treated Germany as one of its most important European allies. It is thought to have about 35,000 soldiers stationed at German bases such as Ramstein and Stuttgart, which serve as staging posts for American operations across Africa and the Middle East.
Since President Trump’s return to power in January, the relationship between the countries has become markedly cooler.
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Shut up, Germany. Stop pretending you’re important and take a shower…or we’ll take more of your land for breathing room.
I mean, seriously, why would you want to talk to trump more?
Well, then throw the american soldats out, no?
I’m a soldat!
Trump is planning a pincer attack on Europe, Putin to the East and US to the West.
The third pincer is already inside Europe, in the shape of fascist parties that get funding from the US.
As much as I understand the worry from Europe,
- this would be deeply unpopular across the political spectrum in the US. Even MAGA would hate this. Who’s I do think Trump is a Russian stoog, he hasn’t yet (can’t?) consolidate enough power to do this unilaterally.
- all of Trump’s actions seem to primarily revolve around what will benefit him personally, through his corruption of the Justice and financial systems. This would devastate markets across the world.
This strikes me as in line with the Trump administration firing/ ignoring any and all types of oversight.
Broadly, I agree.
I would still worry as while they might not actively attack, they may happily just nope on out of helping any NATO allies. NATO allies are more self-sufficient than before, but NATO without US forces and equipment would be much weaker than an active US.
However, he might just go and pick up Greenland if things pop off. If NATO were chewing on a fight with Russia, I think it would be a safe bet that europe would barely spare the time to shake their head disapprovingly if US just went and occupied Greenland. I don’t think they’d actually do a hot war with western european nations, but could easily see them just ‘declaring’ ownership of Greenland and no one stopping them.
this would be deeply unpopular across the political spectrum in the US
more or less unpopular than having a pedophile as president?
Absolutely These people don’t care about kids that they don’t know being abused. Their own children dying on the battlefield though, that’s a different matter
While I see your point, I had to travel a lot for work a few years back… and I got tired of seeing moms, dads and girlfriends making a show at the airport about how their sons/boyfriends/husbands were going to war to DEFEND the USA and PROTECT xyz
I think the brain washing has been thorough enough that they’ll have enough meat for the grinder.
If the people of the USA did not revolt after the WMD fiasco and the American lives lost there, I doubt another war for profit would be any different
Just need a bit of propaganda. If half of Americans were convinces trump is a good president (the best even!), they can be convinced that invading Europe is a great idea.
Just tell them that wokeness has invaded Europe and they need being saved by the US.
Every war involvement is unpopular in the US, doesn’t make the country pacifist.
“America keeps fighting the last war” they said already way back in the 1960s, for all I know.
Germany should build up a massive army to pre-emptively invade Russia. But first they should unite the rest of Europe. It is very pressing so there is no way to do this except by toppling their corrupt regimes. In fact lets start with Poland.
History doing a pirouette
Time to build a new Atlantic Wall, then?
Germany should probably consider expelling all US troops stationed in Germany in response and make a public announcement that this is being discussed at least. You can‘t just sit still when a supposedly close ally suddenly slaps the door at you.
They’re banking on the US eventually turning back around. The US presence in Germany has been historically very beneficial to them, and kicking them out is the kind of move that’s hard to take back.later.
Frankly I’ve always thought the concept of military bases on foreign soil was creepy at best. And it’s hilarious how many people welcome it and the. Freak out when Saudi Arabia is looking at a base in the US. Now you know how it feels.
The difference is Saudi Arabia is always evil and the US is only frequently evil. Always when a Republican is president but also occasionally when a Democrat is president.
Contrary to certain narratives, and while it has some merit, US bases are in said countries at the explicit request of host countries because there is a perceived bigger and more existential threat next door. The host country is basically subcontracting the defense to the United States. Trolls would tell you that these countries were “influenced” or “coerced” to let American troops be stationed. Well, the US is not the one claiming the entirety of South China Sea, or invading Ukraine. South East Asia and EU want US troops to stay because of this. Poland is very US friendly, and so are Taiwan, Vietnam and Philippines. The Philippines elected to kick the American soldiers out 34 years ago, but are now regretting it with the benefit of hindsight due to territorrial dispute in South Chins Sea. Certain actors who push for US withdrawal stand to benefit from it for obvious reasons.
Trolls would tell you that these countries were “influenced” or “coerced” to let American troops be stationed.
Oh please, this is the bullshit propaganda we’re all used to on mainstream. US does coerce them internally to have their bases everywhere. Biden even said repeatedly they would have to invent Israel if it wasn’t there already. US bases are known to have caused deplorable rapes and crimes across the globe, which are then silenced or swept under the rug by the US. When the citizens complain and want them out, they are silenced by coercing the local governments. But I assume people who don’t want racist rapists and criminals in their community are trolls too, right?
Bootlickers propagandists would tell you that these country specifically request US base to be stationed. Well let’s change the subject to china to divert the topic cuz we all hate China here, am I right?
China is threat to south China sea, like US is in Central America. How would you like some Chinese or Russian bases in Cuba, Venezuala, or the Bahamas?
No, you’d fucking cry like a little pussy and embargo them. Oh no, you already do that. So much for countries that want to do what they want, right?
“Do as I say, not as I do.”
No surprise there, so don’t come with that self-aggrandizing, virtue signalling bullshit about threats and coercing.
One of the “threat” is currently playing out and already committed war crimes near Venezuela. And that isn’t China.
You aren’t fooling anyone. I’d go back to reddit where this shit flies because US bases just love reddit.
P.S. Fuck Chinese and Russian governments too.
When the citizens complain and want them out, they are silenced by coercing the local governments.
Do you have a source? American soldiers who commit crimes do get punished. Crimes of individual soldiers does not mean it’s institutionalised and sanctioned by American policies. Meanwhile, in South China Sea, Chinese vessels waterhose Vietnamese and Filipino fishermen and not letting other nations to traverse and fish in international waters, and claiming an entire body of water despite being well away from their legal zone.
For these countries, US is a lesser evil. But I have to admit, Trump’s shenanigans making these countries decouple from US, which is good.
P.S. Fuck Chinese and Russian governments too
Sure bud. Have a plausible deniability.
Laws are certainly different for american scum than they are for the locals. Consider yourself lucky for not having experienced it, instead of dismissing what anyone who’s spent time around those terrorists would tell you.
I’m not even going to bother replying to the rest of your bootlicking, but just ask Greece how willingly they joined NATO.
Do you actually asked locals what they think of Russia and China?
I’m not even going to bother replying to the rest of your bootlicking
Trolls and their unoriginal bad faith tactics of saying “not going to reply” when they know they are backed to a corner. At least you’re creative by preemptively pigeon shitting on the chessboard.
The US has over 700 bases in 80 countries. Countries “invite” them in just like countries “willingly” use the dollar for international trade. Its structural dependancy by an imperial power. The British did the same thing 150 years ago.
Although with Trump’s shenanigans, US dollar is gradually losing its value.
Many countries consciously outsource defense to the US, so that they could invest in their own people instead. A clear evidence of this attitude is when Spain expressed hesitancy to increase their defense budget. Obama has a point that EU has been “free riding”. However, the way Trump makes US allies to “pull their weight” is more coercive than diplomatic.
The us has all the makings of cancer, it even metastasised.
I think rammstein was a capitulation cost wasn’t it?
I thought Rammstein is a cool metal band?
They are.
As an aside they started doing their videos in Germany with Germans instead of America and they are fuckin beautiful.
Awesome visuals. https://youtu.be/skl6N3zGv-s
I dunno how to put this, uhh well produced sexual innuendo I guess is the best way to put it. https://youtu.be/thJgU9jkdU4
In the cold war it made sense. West Germany was a shattered shell of what it had been and what it would become. There was a concern that the USSR might invade, which Bonn had no hope of repelling by itself, probably the only effective method they might have would be to develop nuclear weapons. Nobody wanted more nuclear weapons, so alliances were developed and to get US skin in the game, troops were put in the firing line as an insurance policy
It still does make sense considering that russia is literally invading Ukraine (at least once a decade…) and continue to probe NATO nations. Because, in that regard, it is less a “military base on foreign soil” and more just a NATO base on NATO soil. And, in theory, it is a good idea to let the country dumb enough to spend most of their GDP on a massive standing military to foot the bill.
But considering that the US is just as likely to be on russia’s side in WW3…
It seems like the US is prepared to cede foreign policy in that region to who ever has the biggest stick. Trump is already losing influence and it doesn’t look like any one else on the right has the ability to hold the MAGA movement together? Maybe MGT?
Anyway, way back in the Obama years, the US was already pivoting to the Asia pacific as its primary focus. Trump just ripped the band aid off Europe in his usual “diplomatic” fashion.
We have American border police at our airports, and they are able to act as if they’re on home turf and not our fucking land – including arresting us to take to America. I have a thought as to whom we can expel from here, obviously!
Some of them welcome the bases (or so we are told) to help with defense. But seeing what’s going on in Ukraine, it seems like we can’t rely on allies to help out. Maybe still a deterrent though?
That’s why almost no one does it other than the US, we get to have over 750 of them in more than 80 countries! And at the same time, we would absolutely lose our freedom-loving minds if another country wanted to build one in America.
I’m guessing there’s a lot of smaller steps they could take to make the US hurt, but yes, they shouldn’t ignore it. Going to the media was probably step 1.
That would be the sensible and forward thinking action which prioritizes Germany’s future well being, yes.
Trump is doing Putin’s work.
isolating the USA so they cant intefere in eastern europe, and former soviet states. Also delaying or stopping the adoption of green energy, which will hurt RUSSIA in the long run,
If Trump is a Russian asset, why didnt the US pull out of NATO months ago? Why did Mueller’s report conclude that there was no collusion between Trump’s campaign and Russia?
If Russia is blamed for Trump’s election, we avoid the unpleasant reality of our failed democratic institutions and decaying empire. We avoid facing the inevitable rise of a Christianised fascism borne out of widespread impoverishment, rage, despair and abandonment. We avoid acknowledging the complicity of the Democratic Party in the orchestration of the largest social inequality in our nation’s history, the evisceration of our basic civil liberties, endless wars and an electoral system bankrolled by the billionaire class, which is legalised bribery. The myth allows us to believe that Democratic politicians, like the establishment Republicans who have joined them, are the guarantors of a democracy they destroyed.
All the investigations into Trump’s ties with Russia are unequivocal. There was no collusion. The Steele dossier, financed at first by Republican opponents of Trump and later by Hillary Clinton’s campaign, and compiled by former MI6 British intelligence officer, Christopher Steele, was a fake. The charges in the dossier — which included reports of Trump receiving a ‘golden shower’ from prostituted women in a Moscow hotel room and claims that Trump and the Kremlin had ties going back five years — were discredited by the FBI. Sources, including the one that claimed Trump had long-held ties to the Kremlin, turned out to be fabricated. Special Counsel Robert S Mueller concluded that his investigation ‘did not establish that members of the Trump Campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities.’ Mueller did not indict or accuse anyone of criminally conspiring with Russia.
- Chris Hedges
- because it is easier to disturb operations from within the organisation.
- the report did not talk about collusion, because that was supposed to be decided by a court. That didn’t happen because they did not want to interfere with the election.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mueller_report#Findings See “false no collusion claims”
because it is easier to disturb operations from within the organisation.
And what disturbances do you mean? NATO spending has exploded in recent years. Last year NATO allies increased spending by 18%. Why would a Russian asset set about a plan that drastically increases the funding for Russia’s primary enemy? Why is Trump’s whole schtick that Europe needs to start spending more on defense?
Why would Putin kick off the Ukraine war immediately after his “agent” leaves office?
Why, in his first term, was Trump commanding Germany and EU to stop buying Russian gas? Going so far as to sanction comoanies involved with the Nordstream pipeline?
Meanwhile, in 2018, the US expelled more than 60 Russian officials after identifying them as intelligence officers. To put it bluntly, any gains Russia might have achieved through Trump’s good offices are far outweighed by the strategic, economic, and counterintelligence realities that have emerged during his presidency.
But any Russian intelligence officer would need to consider whether Trump really cares enough about kompromat and Russian money. Indeed, why enrol him as an agent of influence – a move that carries enormous consequences for both parties – when Russia could opt for a convenient friend in Washington?
In reality, even if Russia sees Trump as an asset, we’re not talking about Trump being a new Kim Philby (of Cambridge Five fame). We’re talking about Trump being a self-interested businessman who’s happy to do a favour if it works to his own best interests – and that includes staying out of jail. There’s no evidence that Trump knowingly associated with any Russian intelligence officers. And there’s a big distinction between making the wrong kind of friends and committing treason.
https://www.aber.ac.uk/en/news/archive/2021/02/title-240459-en.html
Collusion/conspiracy/coordinate… just semantics.
[Mueller] did not establish that members of the Trump Campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities.
Trump is not a Russian asset. He’s an easily-manipulated businessman who does things in his own self interest, and that is as American as apple pie. There is no need to invoke Putin. Our descent into Christian Fascism is our own doing - one that Russia no doubt took advantage of. If you truly believe Trump is a Russian asset, then you have to concede that the FBI, the CIA, the NSA, and the Five Eyes have all been captured by Russia as well.
And what disturbances do you mean?
This very article seems to be a prime example. Yes, NATO spending is up, and because of Russia conducting a violent unprovoked invasion of a sovereign territory in their area, and a general reduction in confidence that they can rely on USA and must fend for themselves. Trump’s schtick is mostly ‘America shouldn’t help so much, fend for yourself’. Even with somewhat elevated spending, would that offset the loss of capability that would come with the US just failing to live up to their NATO obligations when the time came?
Why would Putin kick off the Ukraine war immediately after his “agent” leaves office?
Because things were going to be as good as he could get them and the best opportunity was before the new administration could reverse course? In the most favorable Russia outcome, Trump might have followed through on threats to further reduce NATO contributions, but with Trump gone and a more NATO-friendly admin in place, things were going to get worse for Putin before they could get better. I vaguely recall some non-US situations that similarly could have greased the wheels for an easier annexation of Ukraine, so it’s not like the US is the only factor in such timing anyway, but don’t recall what specifics made me think of that.
Trump is not a Russian asset. He’s an easily-manipulated businessman
I will agree that it’s not a straightforward “Trump is a Russian agent”, but an “asset” is not an agent. He’s a convenient “friend” that is easily manipulated/bribed. He doesn’t have loyalty or anything like that to Putin, but he is plainly easy to manipulate, and Putin’s circle has been consistently in position to do that manipulation for decades. Others may be no saints, but Trump is comparitively easier to mess with because of just being terrible at the things he purports to be good at.
“If you truly believe Trump is a Russian asset, then you have to concede that the FBI, the CIA, the NSA, and the Five Eyes have all been captured by Russia as well.”
Would not surprise me. Of course at this point, it is a conspiracy theory, but too many things tie Trump to Russia in the 80s and 90s. I think that is when it started. It’s been a slow roll since then and trumps mismanage of his assets, over time, has put him in a position that he owes the oligarchs of Russia a lot money or favors. As a matter of fact, the conspiracy theory suggest Melanie Trump, origanally from a Russian controlled territory, was forced to marry trump to keep him in line.
Conspiracy theories are outlandish. Everything points to the fact that the majority of GOP was bought off by Russia. Pretending that just Trump is compromised is the only “conspiracy theory”.
People also like to ignore that Trump armed Ukraine with Javelins during his first presidency.
I don’t see a Russian asset doing this.
People also like to ignore Trump tried to blackmail Ukraine into investigating his political rival for which he got an impeachment for.
Trump should not have any say whatsoever in anything related to the Ukraine.
It is staggering he could even be elected after this, but for Congress not to protect Ukraine from a straight up criminal is unconscionable.
I’m more than aware that the orange buffoon betrayed Ukraine after Ukraine raised objections to helping Trump find dirt on Biden.
But that two major arms sales to Ukraine were approved under his presidency at all is proof that Trump isn’t taking orders from Putin.
The whole GOP is up Russia’s ass unless you missed the whole Orwellian Russia is good Ukraine is bad rhetoric they desperately want the public to accept.
Listen, the US sells arms. It is a purveyor of death with business people playing both ends making money off of human death. This is not proof Trump is friendly to Ukraine it is a business transaction.
The truth is his apparatus (who really run things) have been brazenly hostile to the Ukraine. It is literally a game to see how much they can get away with. All while the innocents on both sides die.
I am absolutely astonished on how far low the US government can stoop. They have always been horrible, but when they take the mask off you see how truly disgusting the charade is.
All I have seen from the Orangutan administration is inconsistency and that includes rhetoric towards Russia and Ukraine.
Inconsistency is consistent with the Trump administration.
Even in internal politics, the orange buffoon is inconsistent.
Oh, wee, so cool. If he had supplied em with more than just that, Russia’s aggression would’ve been pushed back.
Do you two think that being a asset/,spy/double agent means you also don’t do things to make you look less suspicious?
If he pulled out of Nato too soon, it wouldn’t look good. He made it into a show. Gave it reasons to be done.
Oh, he gave some Javs? That at most just slowed down the Russians? Ya, if he would have given them tanks, Helicopters, jets, and supplies, the Russians would’ve been beaten back.
It’s called making a scene. He’s being told what he can and can’t do. The only saving grace is that Russia is obviously overconfident, and they all believe they are some unstoppable force.
Ukraine has made do with what they got and have proven Russians are nothing but Brutes.
I guarantee dollars to doughnuts if we take out Russia. I mean, destroyed them, Putin turned into a red mist, and all that followed him the same. Trumps whole thing would fall apart.
Do you two think that being a asset/,spy/double agent means you also don’t do things to make you look less suspicious?
Why would Trump/Putin be afraid of looking suspicious? I thought yalls whole thing was that Trump’s status as a Russian spy is clear as day and known to all.
Trump could have easily not gave Javelins to the Ukrainians as not even Obama gave lethal aid to Ukraine!! This alone makes your assertion of him merely trying to avoid suspicion, untenable.
Imagine how that must feel for Germany. First, they decide they want to tie Russia down to eternal peace by dangling infinite oil and gas riches in the face of Putin, and he decides to hell with riches, he wants WAR!
Then they have this relationship that lasted for 80 years with a former occupying nation that they submitted to and obeyed. They braved nationwide dissent over that nation stationing nuclear missiles on its peace-loving soil. They criminalized everything that nation disliked. As recently as (checks notes) now they supported a genocidal regime because they were told that’s the thing to do.
And now all this sensible foreign policy blows up in their face, and they did nothing wrong, except bet on the crazy horses.
I mean, it beats BEING the genocidal regime, or - worse - being the target of the genocidal regime. But it does give one the impression that being sensible is not all that it’s cracked up to be.
Maybe if Germans stopped constantly betting on anyone that can undermine its neighbours to appease its own oligarchs, Europe wouldn’t be in this mess. Germans would rather sacrifice every single east European than admit France was right. To their credit, this is probably less of a dilemma and more of an opportunity to them, so that was an obvious choice.
Your compassion is misplaced, the corruption of that racist genocidal country affect its neighbours first.
Yeah the only thing Germany got out of that deal was 80 years of peace and the ability to turn itself into one of the best countries to live in. That for the most part without being too big a part in the really shitty stuff the US does.
