US Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth condemned for sinking Iranian ship in international waters. Indian politicians criticize US attack as cowardly and despicable.
They surface, they deploy lifeboats. They treat the wounded and hand them off to locals. Just like submarines have been doing for a very long time. As was pointed out, even the Nazis didn’t abandon survivors. Sri Lanka may have been their quickly, but quickly in nautical terms is hours at best. The sub could have hung around and aided the survivors at least that long.
You are right about nazi subs helping sailors. They would carry them on top of the sub, while towing the rest from a lifeboat. And then they stoped doing that. Because they were fired upon by allied planes while they were towing the lifeboat. So they cut the line and submerged.
That was the last time a submarine tried to help sailors in WW2.
Submarine countermeasures have only increased since then.
Another reason for the submarine to not surface is because they don’t want to let anyone else know which submarine is where.
I’m not gonna say sinking an unarmed warship returning from an exercise is cool. But it’s not a war crime if it’s in international waters, And it’s also not a war crime for a submarine to remained submerged. They are simply not expected to conduct rescue operations.
If you actually bothered to read what you linked. You would see this paragraph
The scope of what a Party to the conflict is actually required to do on the basis of Article 18(1) will depend on the interpretation of the qualifier ‘possible’. What will be possible in the circumstances is inherently context-specific. Thus, the measures that must be taken in each case have to be determined in good faith, based on the circumstances and the information reasonably available to both the commanders on the spot or nearby and to the other organs acting on behalf of the Party to the conflict.
And also
In this regard, the fact that the obligation of Article 18(1) applies to the ‘Party to the conflict’ as a whole is critical. Thus, it may occur that the commander of a single warship or even of an entire naval task-force considers, in a good-faith assessment, that it is impossible to undertake, with the assets under his or her command, any of the activities required under Article 18. This does not, however, absolve those overseeing the commander’s operations (who will have a fuller picture of the situation and may be able to deploy other assets) from assessing what ‘possible measures’ can – and therefore must – be taken. Nor does it absolve the commander from considering other activities that are possible, such as alerting nearby coastal authorities or other vessels in the area or making an ‘appeal to the charity’ of neutral vessels in the sense of Article 21.
The action toke place half an ocean away from the combat theatre. There were no enemy naval nor aerial units around. There was no reasonable risk for the American sub.
But the captain decided not to help the survivors.
He is a war criminal and should be put on trial. But it won’t happen.
I’m sorry but you are wrong. The US have committed more than their fair share of war crimes. But this spcific incident isn’t one of them.
You say you read it, but it would then seem you purposefully ignored this part
based on the circumstances and the information reasonably available
You can look back and say “oh, they never sent a jet, there was no danger”. But you’re doing that with the textbook in hand. You are sitting several days in the future with far more information available to you than at the time of the incident.
A submarine, and I honestly can’t believe i have to say this more than 10 times by now. Is generally not equipped to conduct rescue operations. As far as the submarine captain goes. What do you want him, personally, to do, that also does not put his submarine or his crew in potential danger.
So do we really think Iran had sub killing capabilities in that area so far from home? It does say determined in good faith. You could argue that the captain’s superiors may know something he doesn’t, but cna you argue in good faith that they would withhold information about a threat to his sub in the area? Good faith would mean just claiming there might have been doesn’t count.
Sub killing capabilities as of right now. I highly doubt it.
But it would not be unreasonable to think they might have sent a mig to investigate. Submarines have very limited radar capabilities. It could be dangerous for them to surface for a prolonged time to conduct rescue.
How plausible is that? Probably not very, a Kuwaiti f18 shooting down 3 friendly f15 is also pretty low on the plausibility scale. But it still happened.
I agree, the criteria of what is and isn’t good faith decisions with the information currently at hand is difficult to prove or disprove.
What is the story on those planes. Are they really saying one f18 shot down 3 f15s before noticing they were US jets? Would have to be long range missles I assume, but can they carry that many?
He also decided to not help the survivors.
It’s a submarine. What do you expect them to do? They are not equipped to handle POW’s
It is believed Sri Lanka was notified which were at the scene quickly after it sank.
They surface, they deploy lifeboats. They treat the wounded and hand them off to locals. Just like submarines have been doing for a very long time. As was pointed out, even the Nazis didn’t abandon survivors. Sri Lanka may have been their quickly, but quickly in nautical terms is hours at best. The sub could have hung around and aided the survivors at least that long.
Absolutely this.
You are right about nazi subs helping sailors. They would carry them on top of the sub, while towing the rest from a lifeboat. And then they stoped doing that. Because they were fired upon by allied planes while they were towing the lifeboat. So they cut the line and submerged.
That was the last time a submarine tried to help sailors in WW2.
Submarine countermeasures have only increased since then.
Another reason for the submarine to not surface is because they don’t want to let anyone else know which submarine is where.
I’m not gonna say sinking an unarmed warship returning from an exercise is cool. But it’s not a war crime if it’s in international waters, And it’s also not a war crime for a submarine to remained submerged. They are simply not expected to conduct rescue operations.
Sure.
https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/ihl-treaties/gcii-1949/article-18/commentary/2017
If you actually bothered to read what you linked. You would see this paragraph
And also
I did read it.
The action toke place half an ocean away from the combat theatre. There were no enemy naval nor aerial units around. There was no reasonable risk for the American sub.
But the captain decided not to help the survivors.
He is a war criminal and should be put on trial. But it won’t happen.
I’m sorry but you are wrong. The US have committed more than their fair share of war crimes. But this spcific incident isn’t one of them.
You say you read it, but it would then seem you purposefully ignored this part
You can look back and say “oh, they never sent a jet, there was no danger”. But you’re doing that with the textbook in hand. You are sitting several days in the future with far more information available to you than at the time of the incident.
A submarine, and I honestly can’t believe i have to say this more than 10 times by now. Is generally not equipped to conduct rescue operations. As far as the submarine captain goes. What do you want him, personally, to do, that also does not put his submarine or his crew in potential danger.
So do we really think Iran had sub killing capabilities in that area so far from home? It does say determined in good faith. You could argue that the captain’s superiors may know something he doesn’t, but cna you argue in good faith that they would withhold information about a threat to his sub in the area? Good faith would mean just claiming there might have been doesn’t count.
Sub killing capabilities as of right now. I highly doubt it.
But it would not be unreasonable to think they might have sent a mig to investigate. Submarines have very limited radar capabilities. It could be dangerous for them to surface for a prolonged time to conduct rescue.
How plausible is that? Probably not very, a Kuwaiti f18 shooting down 3 friendly f15 is also pretty low on the plausibility scale. But it still happened.
I agree, the criteria of what is and isn’t good faith decisions with the information currently at hand is difficult to prove or disprove.
What is the story on those planes. Are they really saying one f18 shot down 3 f15s before noticing they were US jets? Would have to be long range missles I assume, but can they carry that many?